[4:00 PM] <jacine> Hi everyone :)
[4:00 PM] <aspilicious> hi
[4:00 PM] <Druplicon> hola
[4:00 PM] • amateescu is now known as amateescu|afk.
[4:00 PM] <jacine> Who's here for the meeting today? Wanna take attendance.
[4:00 PM] <jacine> hi aspilicious :)
[4:00 PM] → drecodeam joined the channel.
[4:00 PM] <jhood> hey everybody :)
[4:01 PM] <jhood> perhaps we should announce in #drupal?
[4:01 PM] <jacine> Oh and Happy New Year! I hope everyone had a nice holiday break.
[4:01 PM] <jacine> jhood: Hey! Nah, that's not necessary.
[4:01 PM] <martin_> hi
[4:01 PM] <Druplicon> salut
[4:01 PM] <jacine> Hi martin_ :)
[4:01 PM] <Druplicon> ericduran: You asked me to remind you to stop what I'm doing and pay attention to #drupal-html5
[4:02 PM] • samkottler is here
[4:02 PM] <jacine> hey samkottler :)
[4:02 PM] <samkottler> jacine: heylo :D
[4:02 PM] <ericduran> bot snack!
[4:02 PM] <Druplicon> thanks, but no drink? I suppose I'll get by.
[4:02 PM] <martin_> jacine: hi
[4:02 PM] • ericduran is here now
[4:02 PM] <jacine> ericduran: love the reminder :) hah
[4:02 PM] <ericduran> jacine: :)
[4:02 PM] <jacine> Alright, well at least there's a few of us.
[4:03 PM] <jacine> html5 sprint?
[4:03 PM] <Druplicon> html5 sprint is http://bit.ly/html5-sprint
[4:03 PM] <jhood> here is a link to the doc webchick created a while back: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AusehVccVSq2dEZEX0piRTJCSzV2Qlg4SDl4T18xNnc#gid=0
[4:03 PM] <ericduran> HAPPY 2012 EVERYONE!!!!!!
[4:03 PM] <jhood> ... to keep track of who is doing what
[4:03 PM] • bmcmurray-brb is now known as bmcmurray.
[4:03 PM] <jacine> jhood: Yeah, I think that spreadsheet missed a meeting.
[4:03 PM] <ericduran> there's a doc?
[4:04 PM] <jhood> jacine: or two :)
[4:04 PM] <ericduran> lol
[4:04 PM] <jacine> I cancelled the last one. hehe :)
[4:04 PM] <aspilicious> html5 sprint?
[4:04 PM] <Druplicon> html5 sprint is http://bit.ly/html5-sprint
[4:04 PM] <jacine> Well, obviously we haven't gotten a lot done in the last month or so.
[4:05 PM] <jacine> Personally, I've been a bit discouraged by what has been going on (and not going on) the issue queue lately, so I have decided to take a break from it all.
[4:05 PM] <ericduran> jacine: I don't know what you're talking about but I got tons done! :-p
[4:05 PM] <jacine> ericduran: what did you get done? LOL.
[4:05 PM] <ericduran> jacine: Oh well not related to this project ha!
[4:05 PM] <jacine> :P
[4:05 PM] <ericduran> lol
[4:05 PM] <jacine> Honestly I don't know what to do about it.
[4:06 PM] <jacine> I'm tired of coming in here every 2 weeks and discussing sprint issues that have been sitting there for months, to be completely honest.
[4:06 PM] <ericduran> davereid: LMAO
[4:07 PM] • aspilicious gives jacine a hug
[4:07 PM] <ericduran> jacine: Yea
[4:07 PM] <aspilicious> it is going well
[4:07 PM] <davereid> davereid--
[4:07 PM] <Druplicon> Oh, you're one of those sorts of humans, eh?
[4:07 PM] <jacine> Does anyone have ideas for how to improve the situation?
[4:07 PM] • jacine gives aspilicious a hug and thanks him for all the reviews and rerolls.
[4:07 PM] <jacine> aspilicious++
[4:07 PM] <aspilicious> I think we are going as fast as log drupal can get
[4:07 PM] <Crell> v = log(Drupal)?
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[4:08 PM] <aspilicious> ow srry log is dutch word
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[4:08 PM] <jacine> wha?
[4:08 PM] <aspilicious> log =  'fat and slow'
[4:08 PM] <jacine> oh
[4:08 PM] <aspilicious> not slow as in slow loading, but slow as in slow proces
[4:08 PM] <jacine> well, I don't buy that.
[4:08 PM] <ericduran> ericduran--
[4:09 PM] <Druplicon> Did litwol put you up to this?
[4:09 PM] • aspilicious shuts up
[4:09 PM] <ericduran> I've just bit a busy
[4:09 PM] <jacine> Honestly, I feel like, unless I am driving almost every issue, nothing happens.
[4:09 PM] <jacine> And, I cannot do that effectively. I need downtime too.
[4:09 PM] <aspilicious> sure :)
[4:10 PM] <jacine> I'm hoping that everything has grinded to a halt because of the holidays and that things will pick up.
[4:10 PM] <martin_> is there a way to break down the issues into smaller chunks so that people can see progress?
[4:10 PM] <aspilicious> I reviewed morten his contextual link patch but it doesn't work correctly and yes in general we lack reviews
[4:10 PM] <ericduran> jacine: Sorry you feel that way. I can image it suck!
[4:10 PM] <aspilicious> a lot
[4:10 PM] <aspilicious> martin_, they are small
[4:10 PM] <aspilicious> and a lot of them got in alrdy
[4:11 PM] <aspilicious> but there are a lot of issues :)
[4:11 PM] <aspilicious> so it takes time
[4:11 PM] <linclark> jacine: one of the issues is (of course) theme_datetime
[4:11 PM] <jacine> martin_: We already do this. We have sprints. http://bit.ly/html5-sprint
[4:11 PM] <aspilicious> again..
[4:11 PM] <jacine> linclark: Yes, it makes me sad.
[4:11 PM] <linclark> I hold by my review of the new approach, but will leave it to themers if they think the API inconsistency is an issue
[4:11 PM] <martin_> aspilicious: ok. good to know. I've been using drupal for a few months and am trying to get more involved now
[4:12 PM] <linclark> if others think that introducing another new pattern for how theme functions work is ok, then that can be RTBC
[4:12 PM] <jacine> linclark: I don't think it's okay, and I'm tired of being bullied.
[4:12 PM] <ericduran> jacine: I'm going to guess that you're not the only person dis-motivated. I'm guessing the contributors are also feeling the same way
[4:12 PM] <jacine> and ignored.
[4:12 PM] <linclark> jacine: ok, if you feel that way then I will continue pushing on that issue
[4:12 PM] <ericduran> my guess is because trying to get something into core isn't really the simplest thing and it can be dis-motivating sometimes
[4:13 PM] <linclark> I just didn't want to be a nuisance if I was the only one who saw it that way
[4:13 PM] <jacine> linclark: I'm tired of "external" issues and this pursuit for perfection fucking us over.
[4:13 PM] <ericduran> Also we don't have that many people to help
[4:13 PM] <jacine> ericduran: yeah, I know all about it :)  just don't know what to do.
[4:13 PM] <aspilicious> And I can't rtbc my own patches :p
[4:13 PM] <jacine> especially when I am in no mood for it.
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[4:14 PM] <jacine> This one is annoying too: http://drupal.org/node/1269586
[4:14 PM] <martin_> jacine: I see 54 people logged in. How many of them would you say are active?
[4:14 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1269586 => Use .js instead of html.js in CSS => Drupal core, CSS, normal, closed (won't fix), 19 comments, 1 IRC mention
[4:15 PM] • bmcmurray is now known as bmcmurray-call.
[4:15 PM] <jacine> martin_: Lots of people just sit in here idle.
[4:15 PM] <jacine> I would hope that if someone wants to help, but needs guidance would speak up.
[4:15 PM] <martin_> yes that seems to be the same on the main channel as well
[4:16 PM] <Crell> That's common on this network in general.
[4:16 PM] <samkottler> 700 users can be a little scary, but people tend to speak up when they need to
[4:16 PM] <martin_> are there people who were recently active that have stopped helping?
[4:17 PM] <jacine> One thing I wanted to ask is whether anyone here is planning on attending the HTML5 Sprint at Drupalcon Denver and needs financial help.
[4:17 PM] <jacine> I can get a few free Drupalcon tickets, for those in need, but I need to know ASAP.
[4:18 PM] <linclark> do you know if the sprints have been chosen yet?
[4:18 PM] <ericduran> jacine: Oh I just read 1269586
[4:18 PM] <ericduran> jacine: actually I'm going to open it back up, sorry
[4:18 PM] <linclark> I know xjm had me as one of the 4 leaders on a sprint, but I don't know if it's been chosen
[4:18 PM] <jacine> martin_: There used to be a lot more people involved, but lately the number has decreased. Could be because of burnout, or the holidays, or a combination.
[4:19 PM] <jacine> linclark: I'm not actually sure. I know all the initiatives will have sprints.
[4:19 PM] <linclark> ah, ok, that makes sense
[4:19 PM] <jacine> linclark: do you want me to put you down just in case?
[4:19 PM] <samkottler> I'm personally discouraged by the fact that it's so difficult to get even the most simple template patch in
[4:19 PM] <jacine> ericduran: that issue has be straight up disgusted.
[4:20 PM] <Crell> samkottler: That's a process failure, because every single comment or whitespace has to be approved by "consensus".
[4:20 PM] <jacine> samkottler: yes, I have been fighting in almost every issue it seems lately which is tiring
[4:20 PM] <Crell> Initiative Owners do not get to actually "lead".
[4:20 PM] <jacine> This is another example: http://drupal.org/node/1183042
[4:20 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1183042 => Change notice: Add WAI-ARIA roles to Core blocks => Drupal core, markup, critical, active, 69 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[4:20 PM] <jacine> Crell: exactly.
[4:20 PM] <Crell> jacine: You need to lean on Dries about that, too.
[4:20 PM] <Crell> I did, and got deflected.
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[4:21 PM] <Crell> But that's your real blocker.  "The community" won't accept "jacine approves it, so cool", and Dries hasn't/won't leaned on the community to say that.
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[4:21 PM] <samkottler> Every issue is a bikeshed
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[4:22 PM] <jacine> Yeah… and my opinion doesn't really count for shit.
[4:22 PM] <samkottler> Crell: yeah well there are some community members (you know who I mean) who block consistently
[4:22 PM] <jacine> I am actually going to set theme_datetime() back to RTBC.
[4:22 PM] <samkottler> jacine: please do, so jbeach and I don't have a daily bitch session about it
[4:22 PM] <samkottler> :P
[4:22 PM] <Crell> samkottler: That won't change until Dries and/or catch, but really Dries, make it clear what authority IOs have.
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[4:23 PM] <Crell> That bites jacine and I in different ways, but it bites us both.
[4:23 PM] <linclark> jacine: just so I know, is that RTBC with the new 'children' variable or one of the other patches?
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[4:23 PM] <samkottler> Crell: this is gonna sound a little radical, but the only way to go things done is to give IO's commit powers
[4:24 PM] <samkottler> get things**
[4:24 PM] <Crell> Won't happen.
[4:24 PM] <jacine> I don't want to deal with #children in theme functions.
[4:24 PM] <jbeach> samkottler, not daily :)
[4:24 PM] <jacine> linclark ^^
[4:24 PM] <jacine> I want to see a separate discussion.
[4:24 PM] <samkottler> jbeach: only because I'm not in the office everyday :P
[4:24 PM] <linclark> jacine: ok, cool, I totally agree that it needs to be a separate discussion that is applied consistently
[4:25 PM] <jacine> ugh, the patch fails tests? hmm.
[4:25 PM] <jacine> oh nevermind
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[4:27 PM] <jacine> http://drupal.org/node/1183250#comment-5453486
[4:27 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1183250 => Add a theme_datetime() function to consistently theme dates and datetimes => Drupal core, theme system, normal, reviewed & tested by the community, 206 comments, 30 IRC mentions
[4:28 PM] <jhood> jacine: ++
[4:28 PM] <jacine> :)
[4:28 PM] <jbeach> jacine: gold star
[4:28 PM] <jacine> It probably will not help… but whatever.
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[4:29 PM] <jacine> Are there any other issues people want me to write bitchy comments on?
[4:29 PM] <jacine> LOL
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[4:30 PM] <aspilicious> http://drupal.org/node/1360994 fails with the new cache api
[4:30 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1360994 => Change hook_maintenance_page to hook_maintenance => Drupal core, theme system, normal, needs work, 11 comments, 5 IRC mentions
[4:30 PM] <jacine> ugh.
[4:30 PM] <aspilicious> I'm going to fix that tomorow so it will be yellow again
[4:30 PM] <jacine> aspilicious++
[4:30 PM] <aspilicious> but yeah it can use a bitchy comment
[4:30 PM] <jacine> aspilicious: really? LOL.
[4:30 PM] <ericduran> lol
[4:30 PM] <Crell> jacine: Holy crap, that issue got to comment 206?  Just to add a theme function?
[4:31 PM] <rasskull> jacine sorry I'm late, reading back
[4:31 PM] <jacine> Crell: It's horrible.
[4:31 PM] <aspilicious> jacine, yeah because catch doesn't like it
[4:31 PM] <jacine> rasskull: no problem! glad you're here :)
[4:31 PM] <linclark> Crell: there are about 5 different bikesheds going on in there
[4:31 PM] <rasskull> :)
[4:31 PM] <ericduran> jacine: FYI, I marked the required RTBC because it is, and I reopen the .js issue because that's a no brainer
[4:31 PM] <jacine> aspilicious: Ah, well I already added a bitchy comment there. :P
[4:31 PM] <ericduran> linclark: lol
[4:32 PM] <jacine> That's just more proof that my word means jack shit.
[4:32 PM] <jacine> Even JohnAlbin gave it his blessing.
[4:32 PM] <aspilicious> jacine, just rtbc it when it's back green
[4:32 PM] <jbeach> I'm starting an issue to expand the theme function to include support for the render layer
[4:32 PM] <jacine> aspilicious: I will.
[4:32 PM] <jbeach> will post in a moment
[4:32 PM] <jacine> jbeach: thank you.
[4:32 PM] <Crell> jacine: Is there anyone who is looking at the theme layer big picture from an archetectural POV?
[4:32 PM] <jbeach> sorry to be spotty here. as always, darting between fires...
[4:33 PM] <linclark> Crell: that so needs to happen
[4:33 PM] <jacine> Crell: Nope. They always come back to render() in templates issue as if that is the problem.
[4:33 PM] <rupl> samkottler: ty!
[4:33 PM] <jacine> Crell: Moshe has said he's going to, and I know effulgentsia wants to.
[4:33 PM] <Crell> linclark: I'm trying to do that for core core.  But Drupal resists having people who look at big picture and expect to get listened to.
[4:34 PM] <linclark> does anyone have ideas for data about the theme layer that would be helpful?
[4:34 PM] <Crell> But really, that's what we need.  Someone who can look at big picture for the theme layer and make longer term plans, *and get listened to*.
[4:34 PM] <Crell> It's that latter part that will not happen unless Dries says it does.
[4:34 PM] <jacine> All I am doing is railing against issues that try to sneak in piecemeal changes, and that's all I really can do.
[4:35 PM] <linclark> I'm trying to do a data collection / data visualization every day in January, and thought some theme layer metrics might be interesting
[4:35 PM] <samkottler> jacine, Crell: well at the end of the day the problem is twofold. 1) it's too hard to get large patches in, and 2) every discussion turns into hysteria
[4:35 PM] <linclark> so if anyone has any ideas for data they'd like to have regarding the theme layer, let me know
[4:36 PM] <jacine> linclark++
[4:36 PM] <Crell> linclark: What sort of data?
[4:36 PM] <samkottler> linclark: the average number of theme-related hooks that get invoked on each page load
[4:36 PM] <samkottler> (I already have the number)
[4:37 PM] <linclark> Crell: one thing I was thinking was the number of theme functions from 5 to 6 to 7, including a breakdown of whether they use template or theme function by default
[4:37 PM] <Crell> The number of times that we call up, then down, then up in the theme layer dosidoe. :-)
[4:37 PM] <Crell> I'd be more interested in the number of layers involved in a single theme call.
[4:38 PM] <linclark> Crell: I was also thinking something along that lines, I saw an interesting data visualization library that could show that well
[4:38 PM] <ericduran> jacine: I can totally use a bitchy comment in an issue, but is not related to html5 or even core
[4:38 PM] <linclark> but yeah, anyone with an idea feel free to ping me in IRC / twitter
[4:38 PM] <jacine> ericduran: LOL. Does it involve anyone that has been giving us a hard time?
[4:38 PM] <jacine> LOLOL
[4:38 PM] <ericduran> jacine: nope, that neither
[4:38 PM] <jacine> damn it.
[4:39 PM] <jacine> So… back to HTML5 stuff for a minute. I just wanted to say that I'm not adding any issues to the sprint.
[4:39 PM] <jacine> html5 sprint?
[4:39 PM] <Druplicon> html5 sprint is http://bit.ly/html5-sprint
[4:40 PM] <jacine> Work on what you want to work on.
[4:40 PM] <jacine> I will do the same.
[4:40 PM] <jacine> Ping me if you need help with anything and I will try my best.
[4:40 PM] <linclark> FYI, I'll be out of town for the next week, til next Wednesday, but I'll check in on theme_datetime when I get back
[4:41 PM] <jacine> linclark: I hope it's committed by then. LOL.
[4:41 PM] <jacine> :D
[4:41 PM] <linclark> jacine: meeee tooooooo
[4:41 PM] <jacine> we can dream.
[4:41 PM] • bmcmurray-call is now known as bmcmurray.
[4:42 PM] <jacine> ericduran, davereid: Do you have any suggestions for how I can get developers involved in the Form API issues?
[4:42 PM] <jacine> ericduran, davereid: I think we really, really need to get at least one of those in, so people can use it as an example to go by.
[4:42 PM] • msonnabaum|afk is now known as msonnabaum.
[4:42 PM] <davereid> I think it's just going to take a smaller team that can continually review/roll/patch off eachother
[4:42 PM] <rupl> I was all about the Form API issues, but people with more sway than me crushed my spirit in various issues
[4:43 PM] <Crell> rupl: Elaborate?
[4:43 PM] <jacine> yes, please.
[4:43 PM] <ericduran> jacine: I think there's a couple that can be used as example
[4:43 PM] <rupl> Crell: don't wanna name names, just go read the issues
[4:43 PM] <ericduran> placeholder, required.
[4:43 PM] <Crell> links?
[4:43 PM] <ericduran> those two will cover ol the other issues
[4:43 PM] <jacine> ericduran: yeah, but that's just an attribute.  I mean actual elements.
[4:43 PM] <jacine> we don't have any of those in yet.
[4:43 PM] <ericduran> lol well then elements is going to be a different story
[4:44 PM] <jacine> yeah, but it's gotta happen.
[4:44 PM] <ericduran> Yet those stupid elements
[4:44 PM] <linclark> jacine: I can jump on one of those once theme_datetime is done
[4:44 PM] <ericduran> umm, most of them have pretty good patches already up
[4:44 PM] <ericduran> jacine: ^^
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[4:44 PM] <ericduran> jacine: probably patches that just need to be re-rolled and RTBC
[4:44 PM] <jacine> I can't really review them, so I need help finding people who can.
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[4:44 PM] <ericduran> actually I'm pretty sure all of them have a patch up that just needs to be rerolled
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[4:45 PM] <rupl> Crell: http://drupal.org/node/1174634
[4:45 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1174634 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: telephone => Drupal core, forms system, major, needs work, 50 comments, 19 IRC mentions
[4:45 PM] <davereid> shit, I wonder if I still need to fix simpletest 6.x to allow the new input elements
[4:46 PM] <ericduran> Actually I rather go back to the last patches where we just add a theme function for each element
[4:46 PM] <jacine> rupl: I crushed your spirit?
[4:46 PM] <rupl> jacine: no lol
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[4:46 PM] <jacine> rupl: sun?
[4:46 PM] <jacine> chx?
[4:47 PM] <jacine> I guess it doesn't matter…. but...
[4:47 PM] <rupl> I honestly got really tired of dealing with chx. It was more than that one issue
[4:47 PM] <ericduran> Ok so on the telephone issue we should re-rolled #14 and that should be what gets in
[4:47 PM] <jacine> what I am trying to say here is that technically this stuff is over my head.
[4:47 PM] <jacine> I NEED HELP with these. Badly.
[4:47 PM] <jacine> That means I need you guys to say "this is how it should be"
[4:47 PM] <jacine> If people like sun and chx don't agree then I can take it to Dries.
[4:48 PM] <jacine> I just need to be able to understand the problem so I can try.
[4:48 PM] <ericduran> jacine: ok, I'll do a massive brain dump on all the issues
[4:49 PM] <jacine> Obviously there are no guarantees that I can actually help, but I am willing to try.  In a few months this initiative will have been going on for a year.  And we may not have any new form elements in.  That's insane.
[4:49 PM] • davereid puts on his get-shit-done calendar to review html5 element issues
[4:49 PM] <linclark> jacine: I can only handle one or two at a time, but if there are any you think I can help with, feel free to ping
[4:49 PM] <jacine> ericduran: You can do it in one if you want…. A high level discussion, where all the other issues can just refer to.
[4:50 PM] <jacine> linclark: Thanks, I really appreciate all you've done so far :)
[4:50 PM] <jbeach> New issue for the improvement of theme_datetime
[4:50 PM] <jbeach> http://drupal.org/node/1400214
[4:50 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1400214 => Update the theme_datetime function to account for the account for the render system => Drupal core, theme system, normal, active, 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
[4:50 PM] <ericduran> jacine: ok, will do, but for now I'm just going to upload the patches because they're honestly not that complicated from a form api standpoint
[4:50 PM] <jbeach> also added to our HTML5 initiative tracking page
[4:50 PM] <jbeach> http://drupal.org/node/1193054
[4:50 PM] <jacine> jbeach: Can we change that to theme functions in general?
[4:50 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1193054 => Re-factor templates and theme functions to use new HTML5 elements => 0 comments, 16 IRC mentions
[4:50 PM] <linclark> jbeach: It will account for HTML, just not render arrays, correct?
[4:51 PM] <jacine> jbeach: Because sun managed to sneak in children to theme_links() and is using that as an example there, but I am not convinced that there has been a discussion about this anywhere.
[4:51 PM] <ericduran> davereid: I'll send you a link when I'm done with the telephone element
[4:51 PM] <jacine> ericduran: thanks! whatever you think is best :)
[4:51 PM] <ericduran> I'm just re-rolling rupl's patch
[4:52 PM] <ericduran> and some decorative explanation text around it
[4:52 PM] <jacine> LOL
[4:52 PM] <davereid> ericduran: that would be great
[4:52 PM] <aspilicious> joomla: Update a site to the latest stable Joomla release with just a click. The new built-in updater also handles updates for Joomla and Joomla extensions.
[4:52 PM] <aspilicious> This is a major enhancement improving upon the previous system of manually updating individual files on the server.
[4:52 PM] <aspilicious> whoops
[4:52 PM] <aspilicious> wrong channel
[4:52 PM] <aspilicious> :p
[4:52 PM] <jacine> LOL
[4:53 PM] <jacine> Alright, I guess with that we can end the meeting, unless anyone else has something they'd like to discuss?
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[4:53 PM] <rupl> ericduran: here's some sampel decorative text: .¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆.¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆.¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆.¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆.¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆.¸¸.•´¯`♥.¸¸.•´¯`☆
[4:54 PM] <jacine> rupl++
[4:54 PM] <jacine> hahhaha
[4:54 PM] <ericduran> ha!
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[4:54 PM] <linclark> jacine: what about this title?
[4:54 PM] <linclark> Rationalize theme functions to improve consistency, including render elements
[4:55 PM] <rupl> jacine: HuGz ♥.¸¸.•°*☆ -=(>^_^)> \(^_^\) ☆*°•.¸¸.♥
[4:55 PM] <jacine> linclark: sounds good to me.
[4:55 PM] • jacine hugs rupl
[4:55 PM] <jbeach> jacine; I'd rather have an issue per theme function
[4:56 PM] <jbeach> it seems like more adminstratia
[4:56 PM] <jbeach> but it's easier to tackle one at a time
[4:56 PM] <jacine> jbeach: But this is not about a single theme function right now.
[4:56 PM] <jacine> jbeach: sun just tried to block that issues based on a "plan" for Drupal 8 that no one ever agreed on.
[4:56 PM] <linclark> jbeach: jacine maybe we could list the single theme functions in the description... this could become a meta
[4:56 PM] <linclark> then once the approach is figured out, we could spin off single issues
[4:56 PM] <jacine> Right.
[4:56 PM] <jbeach> I like that
[4:57 PM] <jbeach> issue that invite bikeshedding are scary
[4:57 PM] <jacine> Just because sun said "this is how it should be" means nothing to me.
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[4:57 PM] <jacine> until we all discuss it.
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[4:57 PM] <jacine> and agree - yes we need to account for #children in or theme functions - or no the fucking render API is killing us.
[4:58 PM] <samkottler> It took 210 comments to get to an RTBC state on a 168 line patch
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[4:58 PM] <samkottler> That's ridiculous
[4:58 PM] <jacine> Personally I want to have this discussion once and never again, and the next time someone complains they can go to that issue and fuck off.
[4:58 PM] <Crell> It's called a "power vaccuum."
[4:58 PM] <samkottler> How will any of the WSCCI stuff ever get in?
[4:58 PM] <Crell> samkottler: That problem is the single greatest threat to WSCCI getting in.
[4:58 PM] <samkottler> What an effin' mess
[4:59 PM] <samkottler> Crell: well yeah and it means 8 will probably get released in 2014
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[5:00 PM] <jbeach> Crell, the WSCCI stuff looks amazing.
[5:00 PM] <jbeach> I'm talking about how we need it at DrupalCamp NJ
[5:00 PM] <jbeach> Jacine, fixing the issue...
[5:01 PM] <jacine> jbeach: cool. linclark changed the title already, did you see that?
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[5:03 PM] <Crell> jbeach: Good to hear someone thinks so. ;-)  Now the challenge is to convince people of that enough that we can figure out a new implementation plan.
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[5:05 PM] <jbeach> Well, front end devs should be clamboring for the flexibility
[5:05 PM] <Crell> seen webchick
[5:05 PM] <Druplicon> webchick was last seen in #drupal-contribute 5 hours 15 min ago saying 'Let me know if I'm missing a cluebat'.
[5:05 PM] <martin_> well I'd love to help I just don't know where to start. I know XHTML/CSS2 very well, learning/using HTML5/CSS3 now. I'm a newb on PHP but want to learn it.
[5:05 PM] <Crell> jbeach: Having front end devs in the WSCCI reboot thread saying "plz can haz?" might be helpful.
[5:05 PM] <jbeach> Can't build agile web ux riding an elephant
[5:06 PM] <jbeach> Crell, can do
[5:06 PM] <Crell> Since the whole thing started with me trying to offer front-enders multiple layouts.
[5:06 PM] <Crell> That just requires, you know, gutting core to get there. :-)
[5:08 PM] <jhood> if anyone joined late, I'll be posting the chat log here http://groups.drupal.org/node/201553
[5:08 PM] <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/201553 => Drupal 8 HTML5 Initiative Meeting #17 => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
[5:08 PM] <jacine> jhood++
[5:08 PM] <jacine> jhood: thank you!
[5:08 PM] <martin_> jbeach: so true ....
[5:08 PM] <jhood> jacine: no worries!
[5:09 PM] <jhood> I've got to run, but I'll stay logged in and put in anything else that comes up
[5:09 PM] <jacine> Thanks for coming everyone!
[5:09 PM] <jbeach> jacine, but I edited our tracking page
[5:09 PM] <jbeach> http://drupal.org/node/1193054
[5:09 PM] <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1193054 => Re-factor templates and theme functions to use new HTML5 elements => 0 comments, 17 IRC mentions
[5:09 PM] <jbeach> with the meta issue
[5:09 PM] <linclark> jacine++
[5:09 PM] <jacine> awesome :)
[5:09 PM] <jacine> jbeach++
[5:09 PM] <jhood> also, if you want to assign yourself to review anything, please fill it in here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AusehVccVSq2dEZEX0piRTJCSzV2Qlg4SDl4T18xNnc#gid=0
[5:10 PM] <jacine> thanks!!
[5:10 PM] <jbeach> ultimately, the effort to get theme functions into the render system is a good one
[5:11 PM] <jbeach> Crell, it would be a good gut check to see if what I'm talking about in my presentation matches with the direction of the WSCCI effort
[5:11 PM] <jbeach> I'm still getting the slides together
[5:11 PM] <jbeach> This weekend I should have a draft
[5:11 PM] <Crell> Hang out in #drupal-wscci :-)
[5:11 PM] <Crell> And read, um, anything I've written in the last 2 years.
[5:14 PM] <jbeach> Crell, I've been reading your posts. It takes me the hours to get through some of them :) I have to look up a lot of stuff
[5:14 PM] <Crell> :-)
[5:14 PM] <jbeach> thank you for writing them
[5:15 PM] <jbeach> Like this past weekend, I thought, do I really REALLY understand AHAH?
[5:15 PM] <jbeach> cue 2 hour link digression....
[5:15 PM] <jacine> LOL
[5:15 PM] <jacine> Sounds like me.
[5:15 PM] <jbeach> then I go and write jQuery and feel better!
[5:16 PM] <jacine> :P
[5:16 PM] <jbeach> I spent most of Sunday writing the plugin to produce the slidedeck
[5:16 PM] <jbeach> https://github.com/jessebeach/preso
[5:16 PM] <jbeach> from HTML
[5:17 PM] <jbeach> So my slides can be living examples
[5:17 PM] <Crell> jbeach: From a front-ender perspective, "Panels and Panels Everywhere and Context Admin in core, with a UI that doesn't suck."
[5:18 PM] <jbeach> keen gear
[5:18 PM] <ericduran> jbeach: :( you should use impress.js
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[5:18 PM] <ericduran> jbeach: http://ericduran.github/drupal8html5status
[5:19 PM] <ericduran> actually make that http://ericduran.github.com/drupal8html5status
[5:19 PM] • Crell has a list of like 8 html presentation libraries he wants to look at.
[5:19 PM] <jacine> I like lea verou's: https://github.com/leaverou/csss
[5:19 PM] <ericduran> I went with the https://github.com/bartaz/impress.js
[5:20 PM] <jacine> She uses it here: http://lea.verou.me/css3-secrets/#intro
[5:20 PM] <jacine> Impress.js looks cool too.
[5:20 PM] <jbeach> ericduran
[5:20 PM] <jbeach> oh man
[5:20 PM] <jbeach> that's ridiculous!
[5:20 PM] • Crell isn't enough of an artist to use impress.js
[5:21 PM] <jacine> I don't really care about all the fancy transitions.
[5:21 PM] <jacine> they're ok…
[5:21 PM] <Crell> I'm just sick of Libre Office being slow.
[5:22 PM] <ericduran> jbeach: preso looks cool
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[5:23 PM] <ericduran> jbeach: you need a demo
[5:23 PM] <davereid> having to put in x, y, and z coordinates to give a presentation--
[5:23 PM] <jbeach> ericduran, it's just meant to move between full HTML pages
[5:23 PM] <jbeach> the slidedeck will be the code examples
[5:23 PM] <jbeach> plus I was just itching to write something fun
[5:24 PM] <jbeach> been doing too much PHP lately :/
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[5:26 PM] <ericduran> jbeach: I know the feeling
[5:26 PM] <ericduran> js++
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[5:26 PM] <ericduran> sadly I don't write nearly enough javascript as I wish I could
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[5:28 PM] <ericduran> What this actually written in JS?http://www.grantgalitz.org/gamecenter/index.html
[5:28 PM] <ericduran> I'm thinking it was probably written in something else and automatically converted to JS
[5:28 PM] <ericduran> but I have no clue
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[5:29 PM] <jbeach> Megaman!
[5:29 PM] <jbeach> good stuff
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[5:30 PM] • jhood is now known as jhood|away.
[5:31 PM] <jacine> I love Megaman. LOL.
[5:31 PM] <jacine> and Super Mario.
[5:35 PM] <martin_> ericduran: as clean as the code is I'd say it was written directly in JS
[5:36 PM] <martin_> ericduran: cause that's some nice code!
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[5:37 PM] <ericduran> martin_: cool
[5:38 PM] <ericduran> it is impressive
[5:38 PM] <martin_> and fun!
[5:40 PM] <bmcmurray> nice find ericduran
[5:40 PM] <ericduran> bmcmurray: all I did was follow jacine on twitter ;) or somewhere
[5:40 PM] <bmcmurray> hehe
[5:40 PM] <jacine> It came from codepo8 ;)
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[5:44 PM] <jacine> alright, I'm outtie… bbl (hopefully).